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Weird error18

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Mitglied
Registriert seit: Aug 2011
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Hi,

I´ve experimented some weird error with my okto. I was at Galicia when 4th day my copter didn´t want to start motors. After checking with mktool there was Error18, BL control missing (nº2). BL error window showed 127 for nº2. I did check everything and couldn´t find any reason. Moving i2C wires from i2C isolator to BL nº2 the red light from MKT become green for an instant and then turns red again, so I was thinking my wire was loose even when it didn´t look so.

I was testing this for a long period, it was not just a moment, but could solve it not even for a second

But after returning home, now I connect the copter and everything works fine. It doesn´t matter how do I move/twist the wires that error don´t show again....

Maybe humidity may affect the electronics? Galicia is very humid, actually raining most days, while here in Madrid humidity is very low...

All my electronics are protected with Plastik70


Any idea?
Mitglied
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AndresMtnez meinte
I was at Galicia

Which country?

AndresMtnez meinte
After checking with mktool there was Error18, BL control missing (nº2). BL error window showed 127 for nº2.

Perhaps it is one of the two electrolytic capacitors on the BL-Ctrl that is broken or worn out. Check if the ends look swollen.

These capacitors should be glued to the side of the FET (power transistors). If the glue is broken, the capacitor leads will be stressed from vibrations and can break inside the capacitor, so they have an unstable connection and therefore sometimes work, sometimes not.

Unfortunately they sit on the underside of BL-Ctrl board so you need to have the power distribution board unscrewed to check this. Check if one of the capacitor is not glued by slightly pushing on its side, if it moves it can be defect. Be careful not break the glue of other good capacitors. If one found you will need to solder in a new capacitor and glue it fixed, otherwise you will have the problem soon again .

AndresMtnez meinte
Moving i2C wires from i2C isolator to BL nº2

Sometimes I have been wondering if it would be good to have that I2C isolator, but I am not sure you can even get them any more. Best would be if it was built into the standard MikroKopter power distribution board.
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Foersom meinte
AndresMtnez meinte
I was at Galicia

Which country?

Spain
externer Link:
User image

Foersom meinte
AndresMtnez meinte
After checking with mktool there was Error18, BL control missing (nº2). BL error window showed 127 for nº2.

Perhaps it is one of the two electrolytic capacitors on the BL-Ctrl that is broken or worn out. Check if the ends look swollen.

These capacitors should be glued to the side of the FET (power transistors). If the glue is broken, the capacitor leads will be stressed from vibrations and can break inside the capacitor, so they have an unstable connection and therefore sometimes work, sometimes not.

Unfortunately they sit on the underside of BL-Ctrl board so you need to have the power distribution board unscrewed to check this. Check if one of the capacitor is not glued by slightly pushing on its side, if it moves it can be defect. Be careful not break the glue of other good capacitors. If one found you will need to solder in a new capacitor and glue it fixed, otherwise you will have the problem soon again .

Did´t check it before, thanks for the idea

Checked and both look nice

One of them is unglued, but I think it was myself when moving everything at Galicia trying to find the problem. Have to glue it again

Foersom meinte
AndresMtnez meinte
Moving i2C wires from i2C isolator to BL nº2

Sometimes I have been wondering if it would be good to have that I2C isolator, but I am not sure you can even get them any more. Best would be if it was built into the standard MikroKopter power distribution board.


Sure.

I don´t know the reason they don´t do it. What´s the point of an octo if any bus error may stop all the motors? :roll:

To me it´s a must have if you want real redundancy
Mitglied
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AndresMtnez meinte
Spain

Hola, greetings to Spain. Is that region not very windy?
AndresMtnez meinte
One of them is unglued, but I think it was myself when moving everything at Galicia trying to find the problem. Have to glue it again

I understand why you want to do this easy step, but careful here! You got the error that might be it is already broken inside but you cannot see it. My recommendation would be to change the capacitor. This is a bit tricky because the capacitor is soldered to both distributor board and BL-Ctrl and soldering iron heat will dissipate in ground-plane so difficult to desolder. Only do it if you are well experienced in soldering, otherwise seek soldering help.

Note the capacitor is physically smaller than you would find in a typical electronics shop. You might have to order online.


Do you have a photo or shop link of the I2C isolator board?
Mitglied
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Galicia is more rainy than windy. Anycase I don´t live there, only go on holidays and there was some wind, but no that much

You´re right, capacitors are too cheap to risk using one wich is faulty... will buy a replacement

I have many experience soldering, I did all the soldering of my okto by myself and never got any single error or needed to resolder anything. I bought a soldering station (aoyue 968_) on purpose to do it as perfect as possible. Great buy, a huge difference with standard soldering irons :)

I was thinking if I can´t desolder the capacitor legs, maybe I could cut the legs and solder the new capacitor to the old legs since the problem may be the capacitor itself, the legs shouldn´t be a problem, what do you think?

What glue do you use for the capacitors? I used 1mm balsa between capacitors and the heat-sinks (my esc´s have two each) and glued that balsa to the heat-sinks and capacitors with cyano, but not sure if there´s a better option for better heat resistance
« Bearbeitet von AndresMtnez am 18.08.2014 14:01. »
Mitglied
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Sorry about the i2C isolator, but I can´t remember the shop, I did the purchase around 3 years back :(

I´d have to dismantle the tower for a picture, it´s the first board so it´s under FC, NC and GPS, even below Powerboard. When I´ll change the capacitor will have to dismantle everything, will post a picture then
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AndresMtnez meinte
Galicia is more rainy than windy. Anycase I don´t live there, only go on holidays and there was some wind, but no that much

Lots of wind turbines there?

AndresMtnez meinte
I have many experience soldering, I did all the soldering of my okto by myself and never got any single error or needed to resolder anything.

Good, then you are ready for a proper repair.

AndresMtnez meinte
I bought a soldering station (aoyue 968_) on purpose to do it as perfect as possible. Great buy, a huge difference with standard soldering irons :)

I also got an Aoyue 968A+, great functionality but clumsy design. Very good value for money.

AndresMtnez meinte
I was thinking if I can´t desolder the capacitor legs, maybe I could cut the legs and solder the new capacitor to the old legs since the problem may be the capacitor itself, the legs shouldn´t be a problem, what do you think?

You could indeed solder on top, but given your skills I suggest a proper repair with the iron (I did with that repair with a soldering iron). If you use the hot-air careful that you do not heat and displace some other tiny SMD component.

AndresMtnez meinte
What glue do you use for the capacitors? I used 1mm balsa between capacitors and the heat-sinks (my esc´s have two each) and glued that balsa to the heat-sinks and capacitors with cyano, but not sure if there´s a better option for better heat resistance

Hrm, the plot thickens... I have earlier run into this problem you are now facing after installing heat sinks. One capacitor was so much over the FETs that I had to break the glue to fit in the heat sink. I did not do a proper glue job and later encountered the I2C error. Since changing the capacitor and glue all OK. I used simple general strong glue Henkel DuroBond. I have not done anything to isolate heat, remember they were already glued to the same position.


I2C isolator board photo? - OK you already answered.

Do you shop at Electronica RC (in Sevilla)? I have used them several of times and in general find them good, but sometimes they should be more precise with product descriptions and client communication. Are there other shops in Spain?
« Bearbeitet von Foersom am 18.08.2014 14:38. »
Mitglied
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Foersom meinte
AndresMtnez meinte
Galicia is more rainy than windy. Anycase I don´t live there, only go on holidays and there was some wind, but no that much

Lots of wind turbines there?

Some hundreds, I visited the wind park (?) and this was the picture no matter what direction you looked at
externer Link:
User image


Foersom meinte
AndresMtnez meinte
I was thinking if I can´t desolder the capacitor legs, maybe I could cut the legs and solder the new capacitor to the old legs since the problem may be the capacitor itself, the legs shouldn´t be a problem, what do you think?

You could indeed solder on top, but given your skills I suggest a proper repair with the iron (I did with that repair with a soldering iron). If you use the hot-air careful that you do not heat and displace some other tiny SMD component.


I don´t usually use the hot-air, only once to remove a regulator from a burnt tv trying to repair it (without success) :(

I prefer the traditional way, with different tips and regulated temp I find it much better


Foersom meinte
Do you shop at Electronica RC (in Sevilla)? I have used them several of times and in general find them good, but sometimes they should be more precise with product descriptions and client communication. Are there other shops in Spain?


Yes I know ElectronicaRC, when looking for some MK component I´ve also purchase from Jugetronica but that´s a toy store, so I´m not too confident about asking them for advice, only buy there when I know what I´m looking for. My AccZ board for FC2.2 was bought there

When I need some electronic component I usually buy at Digikey or Mouser. In Spain there´s also Merchan, but I usually go to Mouser
Mitglied
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New question....

ZLJ or ZLH series capacitor?

MK shop shows ZLJ series, but my esc´s capacitors are ZLH...

Both 25v 330uF obviously


Edit: for those who know how to read capacitors specs, datasheet. I can see some difference in rated ripple current and impedance, but have no idea about what does that mean on real world
« Bearbeitet von AndresMtnez am 28.08.2014 11:59. »
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AndresMtnez meinte
New question....
ZLJ or ZLH series capacitor?

The replacement capacitors that I have from Altigator BE are marked ZLH and another YXJ. I doubt there is a difference for this type of application. It is for power supply voltage not for analogue signal.
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Ok, I´ve just ordered zlh series

MK people should look for more affordable shipping rates for small things, they tried to charge 20€ for something can be sent into a letter, so ordered from ebay....


Thanks again Foersom :)

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