Aktive Beiträge
= SUCHE = 
Chat
English
French
Registrieren
LOGINHello,
Discovering the mx20 and testing some 0.88m features
i did some failsafe tests today with the hexa2 (regular mK)
It works fine, but ..
Whatever failsafe time =0 or more the mk always come back home !?
i though that if failsafe time was 0 we were going directly to emergency gas and going down without moving.
I did the tests starting from free flight or alti vario on+gps ph
i tried 0-10-60 secondes
Also what is the descent value used for auto descend ? (vario % equivalence)
Did you program some flare at the end, i wasn't courageous enough to let it land alone, i stoped the descent at 5 meters ....
Thanks
regards
Denis
failsafe function and return to home
| Autor | Neuer Beitrag |
|---|---|
| #1 08.07.2012 20:58 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | |
| #2 08.07.2012 21:46 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Oct 2010 Beiträge: 1334 Ort: Copenhagen, Denmark | http://mikrokopter.de/ucwiki/en/FailSafe maybe this can clear up some stuff ? |
| #3 08.07.2012 22:31 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | What do you mean by clear up ? I am sorry but i have checked that wiki page many time (and the O,88 as well) and it says the contrary of what i have seen: <<IMPORTANT If no "Failsafe CH time" has been entered in the settings, the Kopter will directly go down with the emergency-gas and emergency-time settings>>
|
| #4 08.07.2012 23:14 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | I forgot to say i was suprised to have the voice message saying "gps arret" after i put the switch back (to end to simulation) so i retested now and most of the time (whatever failsafetime value) : when switching on it says in french "gps retour" (that means "gps ch"), then "reception error" when switching of: "gps arret" , then "reception error" so gps seems to be used in every case ... that sounds strange. (note that sometimes it doesn't say "gps retour" ....) |
| #5 09.07.2012 18:44 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | Am I alone to have tried the failsafe ??? ;-) |
| #6 14.07.2012 14:39 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | Come on please it is strange to fill a thread alone ... I am really surprised that nobody seems interested in the bug i am describing ? May be my english is too bad ? Ok failsafe with CH is working but: The bug i have seen is that the "gps CH" is engaged when you go in failsafe, even if "Failsafe CH time is 0". Or there is a big mistake in the wiki that says: <<IMPORTANT If no "Failsafe CH time" has been entered in the settings, the Kopter will directly go down with the emergency-gas and emergency-time settings>> One question is: what will happend is there is a gps problem or if you fly inside with no gps reception ??! By the way i am not really happy the way things are working with this failsafe because there is no choice (the only one possible with the MX20 i am affraid): I you use Failsafe CH time = 0 it will fly back to starting position, it should not I you use Failsafe CH time = 0 and vario mode for emmergency-gas you cannot test failsafe before flying I you use Failsafe CH time >0 and ComingHome altitude ≠0 you cannot test failsafe before flying and you don't know/control descent speed during failsafe ch time Also You cannot have the camera going up when failsafe starts And it is strange to set time in secondes for failsafe time and in 1/10 of secondes for emmergency time .... To be clear, i like the fact that i could have the choice of a failsafe that could bring back the kopter BUT i miss the failsafe i had before that could just land your kopter where it flies, with camera lens going up and not being gps dependant. best regard Denis (tested on hexa2 with 0.88m, mx20+gr16-hott v4 from july) |
| #7 24.07.2012 12:08 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | Again, me alone ... I did some more tests with failsafe CH time =60 starting from 40 high, 40 m far, 20 m for CH altitude, good breeze. It works well, and 2 good news: (it is impressive because it goes down, comes back and begin to go down quickly) • but it slows around 5 meters and can land ≈ safely, less than 2 meters from starting point. • Second good surprise, (i put a gopro yesterday to know what happen on the gimba) : the gimbal goes up during failsafe ch time ! Next test to do: without gps ... somebody tried yet ? regards Denis « Bearbeitet von nosig78 am 24.07.2012 12:49. » |
| #8 24.07.2012 22:10 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jun 2011 Beiträge: 29 | I lost my Hexa the other day due to signal loss. I hadn't changed the fail safe settings from default so what would have happened after signal loss? Coming Home 0 m Altitude (not set) Emergency Time 90 Emergency gas 65 Failsafe CH time 0 Failsafe channel 0 Use vario control for failsafe altitude OFF The wiki says the MK sets emergency gas (In my gas 9.0 secs) then switches off motors. Does it go down in Position Hold or just Attitude hold. There was a strong breeze of 30 kph and it was at 80 m above the ground. I'm trying to figure out its possible crash point. I have the final GPS fix from the MX-20 telemetry. The free fall time from 80 m is about 9 secs? So if it goes to 0 nick and 0 roll it should be about 80 meters or so downwind of last fix? I did have half nick trim forward before signal loss. Would that have affected the MK's response at signal loss? Thanks for any help. |
| #9 25.07.2012 01:16 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | Sorry for your crash. I cannot tell what happened, but from what you wrote here is what i understand: Failsafe CH time 0 => so it goes directly in emergency gas for emergency time Coming Home 0 m Altitude (not set) => not used Emergency Time 90 => emergency gas for 9 secondes only, then motors of ! ... What i have seen with "Failsafe CH time 0" is that it flies back directly, CH, (the mx20 says CH !) (trouble reading the wiki that doesn't say that, see previous posts) but it flies with the power YOU have set: Emergency gas 65 & Use vario control for failsafe altitude OFF => to be checked, depending your kopter weight aswell, but it seems that you had not much power with 65 (?) From 80m it takes 9 secondes to go down at 9 meters by second ...?... And if there isn't enough power and some strong wind against ... it probably went just down ?... BTW: 30 knots breeze really on the ground ? at 80 meters it could have been 35 or 40 ... Not really confortable conditions ... regards Denis |
| #10 25.07.2012 04:35 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jun 2011 Beiträge: 29 | Thanks for your response. The kopter was on the shoreline of a harbour at 80 m height going at 70 kph (30 kph of that was wind). The reason I lost contact was I had left half forward nick trim in when I went to waypoint flight. The kopter disregarded the WP and flew forward at around 10 kph. I thought I had lost control so I went to free flight. With the forward trim in, this made it go around 50 kph away from me. I couldn't figure out what was wrong before I lost contact (Come Home doesn't work with stick input in). I tested gas of 65 and my octo drops about 20 m in 9 secs with that setting. It must of free fell fom there which would have taken about 7 seconds. So assuming it went to 0 degress nick and was travelling 30 kph downwind it must of travelled around 140 meters. The harbour is 200 meters wide so it must in the harbour  |
| #11 26.07.2012 08:02 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2010 Beiträge: 252 Ort: South Africa | Failsafe only works with GPS installed |
| #12 26.07.2012 16:55 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | Hello,
I am sure that it would not work the way it is supposed because whatever the value of "faisafe CH time", GPS CH is used, but what would happen if there is a gps problem or if you fly without gps (inside) ? Did you try without GPS ? it is on my short list ... Thanks Denis |
| #13 27.07.2012 18:06 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2012 Beiträge: 3 | Good morning to all. Hope somebody can help me. Yesterday my okto crash after a FAIL SAFE test... What's happened? I've tryed to activate the fail safe channel, the drone goes in Position Hold mode and after that... after 60", it shut off the motors... No coming home was activated (in the OSD was appeared "CH" icon but it was came back really slow... too much slow... and it never tryed to meet the 8meters -the right coming home altitude). The follow are the parameters I've set: Emergency Time 10, Emergency Gas 80, Failsafe CH time 60, use vario control for failsafe altitude (checked), Failsafe channel 8. Somebody can help me? All the best. Thanks in advance, chris |
| #14 27.07.2012 21:14 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Oct 2010 Beiträge: 1334 Ort: Copenhagen, Denmark | How did you verify the motors were shut down ? The failsafe page clearly states that after 60 seconds total, the MK will use the emergency throttle: "If the 60sec. are used up because of a to great distance or altitude to the homepoint, the pre-defined "EMERGENCY-Gas/Throttle" will be switched on automatically. The Kopter will go into a descent with the set up values for "EMERGENCY-Gas/Throttle Time" and "EMERGENCY-Gas/Throttle". " Also, did you fly further away than 25 meters? "First at all the function "PositionHold" will be activated for 5 seconds and the Kopter climbs/falls to the preset "ComingHome Altitude". (note: only if the distance from the starting point is >25m) " Overall, the failsafe documentation is pretty well done? I agree, Nosig, that at a 0 fail safe time, then it shouldn't do CH. Does it indeed do the 5 seconds of PH at first ? |
| #15 27.07.2012 22:31 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 | Hello, <<The follow are the parameters I've set: Emergency Time 10, Emergency Gas 80, Failsafe CH time 60>> My understanding: I am affraid that a part of the answer is easy: Emergency time doesn't use the same unit "(1/10 of secondes)" : "10" means one seconde !!! it is not the same as for failsafe CH time where you write "secondes". (i wrote before it wasn't logical ...) so after the "Failsafe CH time" of 5+55 secondes, you had just one seconde of emergency gas then motor stop .... But it should have moved to start position during failsafe CH time, except if you were inside the 25 meters limit ??? Surprised that you said it was moving "slow", in all my tests it moved "fast" regards Denis And @ wizprod, thanks to let me know you agree for Failsafe CH time=0 ;-) |
| #16 01.08.2012 18:12 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2012 Beiträge: 3 | Thanks to all, shure I've The GPS installed, and the drone was over 100meters far from The Start position... I don't have idea for The reazione why it don't came back... Anyway, The big mistake wat The emergency time... 1 second was not enough! :-) |
| #17 06.08.2012 21:11 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Feb 2012 Beiträge: 9 |
The failsafe with GPS CH is the only tool the MK have to navigate back to the beginning. Every RTH system needs GPS to head back home. What kind of receiver do you use? //Matte |
| #18 07.08.2012 07:23 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jun 2011 Beiträge: 29 | If you have stick inputs in when the MK goes into failsafe it won't go to Come Home mode and will not climb/descend to CH Altitude. It continues following the last stick input. Maybe this should be changed in the next update or provide an option to disregard the last stick inputs at failsafe? |
| #19 07.08.2012 14:23 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Feb 2012 Beiträge: 9 |
What!? Thats sounds crazy, the idea with this failsafe is if you fly out of range. How is that possible without stick inputs? //Matte |
| #20 07.08.2012 22:22 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jun 2011 Beiträge: 29 |
Try it. If you have nick or roll inputs in when it looses Tx it won't trigger Come Home. It won't on my system anyway. I'm using the MX20. |
| #21 08.08.2012 11:05 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Aug 2011 Beiträge: 125 | That´s because your rx has its own failsafe, and it keep the last correct signal after a signal loss. That means the MK doesn´t know the rx has lost the signal, because it continue sending channels positions That´s the reason of the failsafe channel wich was implemented recently. You have to adjust a free channel in your tx, set in MKtool that channel in the failsafe channel option, and set the failsafe of your rx to change that channel if going to failsafe, so the MK can recognize the failsafe situation and activate the CH failsafe (wich btw is different to the standard CH, CH failsafe starts climbing/desdending to the prefixed CH altitude while standard CH goes directly to you) |
| #22 08.08.2012 11:53 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jun 2011 Beiträge: 29 |
My system (MX20), if switched off with no stick inputs goes into failsafe as advertised. (So the MK does recognise signal loss correctly) It's only when I switch off the Tx with stick inputs in will it not go into CH mode. |
| #23 08.08.2012 16:47 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Aug 2011 Beiträge: 125 |
Do you mean the MK failsafe, the CH after reaching the CH altitude? Your rx has failsafe? |
| #24 09.08.2012 00:06 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jun 2011 Beiträge: 29 |
Yes. My Mk will fly the CH failsafe program if there are no stick inputs at signal loss. If there are stick inputs it doesn't go into CH altitude or CH.
The Graupner MX20 does have failsafe. I'll try to set it to input neutral stick inputs at signal loss. I wasn't aware you needed to do this and can't find any reference to it in the wiki. |
| #25 24.08.2012 22:51 | |
| Mitglied Registriert seit: Jul 2011 Beiträge: 60 |
|
